No harm to any religion. It’s just a lamp ads by an Australian company. However, it’s funny!
I’m going to cry 😂😂
Ahaha, the reason why Mohammad is specifically mentioned as not being able to be there is because in Islam, portrayals and portraits of Mohammad are forbidden. But they didn’t want to be seen as either hand waving him as at the table but not shown or as explicitly omitted.
[Video ID: A businessman is demonstrating cracking open a large nut by slamming his fist into it. The nut, having other ideas, breaks through the table instead upon being slammed, leaving a nut-sized hole. The businessman loses it.]
Lately, I’ve seen a lot of faulty pro choice arguments, so I just want to review a couple of points that we should be making. This post will be followed up by examples and deconstructions of faulty pro choice arguments as well. (Note: bold = anti choice argument, regular text = pro)
1) “Abortion is murder!!”
– There are three ways to define life: a) any being with cells, b) two or more fertilized human cells, or c) a born person, and possibly a viable fetus. Ask the anti which definition they’re using (we already know that) and ask them to explain, in medical terms, where and why they believe life begins wherever they believe it does.
– If you reach an agreement with them that a fetus is alive (which very well may happen – there’s no denying that even blastocysts are alive, even if they aren’t people with human rights), it’s time to get into legal terms. For starters, abortion cannot possibly be murder, because murder is:
Intentional. Murder is the intentional taking of a human life; however, this argument is flawed because the purpose of abortion is not to kill, but rather to make a pregnant person no longer pregnant. If there were a way to make a pregnant person un-pregnant instantly without the fetus dying, that would be great – but there isn’t. Fetuses simply aren’t viable when 99% of abortions take place, and pregnancies can’t be transferred.
Premeditated. In this one, yes, you could argue that abortion is “premeditated” in that it is usually planned out in the form of an appointment at a clinic. But that is irrelevant because murder must also be:
Done out of malice. Sorry, anti-choicers, but people don’t walk into an abortion clinic thinking, ‘gee, am I excited to kill that damn fetus today!’. They just don’t. People don’t have abortions out of a desire to hurt an embryo – people have abortions because they don’t want to be pregnant.
If something does not meet these three conditions, it cannot legally be considered murder. Thus, abortion is definitely the termination of a pregnancy, but seeing as that the intent is termination and not killing, it is by no means murder.
2) But the impact is the same! Even if it’s not murder, it still ends a human life!!
Yes, it does result in the death of a zygote, embryo, or fetus. We can agree on that. See Bodily Autonomy at the very bottom, or check out these posts. XXX
3) But what about adoption?!?!
Adoption is a great option for people who don’t want to raise a child, but it doesn’t do much for people who do not or cannot be pregnant for nine months. It’s a way to avoid having to raise a child, but it still means a person has to carry a pregnancy for nine months.
4) Yeah, well we’re talking your comfort for nine months vs. a human life!!
5) But the chances of the mother dying are so slim, but with abortion, the chance of the fetus dying is 100%! It’s better to risk one human life than to deliberately, certainly terminate another.
That is not your decision to make. Period. Who do you think you are, to tell someone you don’t even know that they should risk their lives in order to push out a baby in nine months? If people don’t want to risk their own life, that’s a perfectly acceptable and understandable choice that they can make with no moral qualms.
6) Well, they consented to this risk when they had sex. If they didn’t want to get pregnant, maybe they should have kept their legs closed!
a) So, how so you feel about rape victims who get abortions? Do you support a rape exception for abortion?
b) Just like consent to kissing is not consent to sex, or like consent to driving in a car is not consent to being killed in a car accident, consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. Consent is not transferable (aka. consent to one thing is not consent to another) and by implying that it is, you are actively contributing to rape culture.
c) Acknowledging the risk of something is not the same thing as consenting to that risk. Every day, when I get in my car, I acknowledge the risk that I could be killed in a car accident while on the road. But if I should, indeed, get in an accident, I would not be denied medical care simply because “maybe I should have walked instead”. Even if I wasn’t wearing a seatbelt at the time the accident occurred, nobody would deny me lifesaving surgery just because I was irresponsible and failed to protect myself.
7) Yes, of course I support a rape exception. Rape victims are traumatized.
How is a fetus conceived in rape any different than a fetus concieved in consensual sex? I thought we were worried about the fetus, the “unborn child”, the “innocent life”. Suddenly, the value of that life is contingent upon the way it was conceived? That doesn’t sound like your priority is saving as many fetuses as possible. That sounds like your priority is policing people’s sex lives to fit your own moral standards.
Second of all, how would that work logistically? How do you prove a rape? Most sexual assaults that go to court (3.5% of reported rapes and 1.1% of total rapes) take well over nine months to reach conviction (and only 63% of cases that go to court lead to a conviction – see link above). The thing is, pregnancy is only nine months long and it would be nearly impossible to report and prove a rape, as well as have an abortion, within that time frame.
The only other option in this case would be to believe everyone who seeks an abortion because they have been raped – but if the law were to only provide a rape exception for abortion, I can guarantee you that the rate of false rape accusations would go up. People would believe victims even less than they do now, and rape would almost become normalized because accusations would be so common (and for good reason).
Bottom line: the goal of “pro-lifers”, especially those who support a rape exception, is to punish people who choose to have sex.
8) I don’t punish people who have sex! It’s called taking responsibility. I just have a problem with people who have unprotected sex – people who are blatantly irresponsible – and then choose to get an abortion. They even use it as birth control, killing innocent babies so they can go to the club and whore around! (Yes, this is an actual argument I have heard).
First off: abortion is a very responsible choice to make when faced with an unwanted pregnancy. Even if a couple did choose to have unprotected sex and was faced with pregnancy, abortion is one of three equally responsible choices – parenting, adoption, and, of course, abortion.
Second: behaving irresponsibly does not warrant a violation of bodily autonomy. Nothing a person can do, warrants their human rights being stripped from them – including in the form of forced pregnancy.
By the way, forced pregnancy is considered torture by the United Nations (pg. 10, paragraphs 45-50). So yeah, if you’re advocating for forced pregnancy, you’re promoting torture.
Question time: would you be okay with a married person getting an abortion, provided they and their partner were using both condoms and the Pill, but both had failed? Would you be okay with a 20-year-old woman who had a one night stand of unprotected sex and needed an abortion? If you truly really only care about protecting the fetuses, your answer shouldn’t vary at all.
The Argument of Bodily Autonomy
There’s one last argument – and one of the most popular ones among experienced pro choice advocates – that was not covered in these 8 points. Why? Because really, you can throw in the bodily autonomy argument anywhere, anytime, during an abortion debate. It’s always relevant, because that’s the core of the issue.
Essentially: as a society, we clearly prioritize bodily autonomy over life. That’s why you can’t be forced to donate blood or bone marrow (even if you are the reason the person needs a donation – for example, if you caused a serious car accident and the other driver needed a blood transfusion, you still could not be forced to donate blood). That’s why rape is wrong – it is a violation of bodily autonomy. Abortion is no different. The fetus is a guest in someone’s body, and regardless of whether it ‘asked’ to be there or not (it didn’t), if the pregnant person decides that the fetus is no longer welcome, then it needs to go.
The bodily autonomy argument is great because you can give anti choicers almost everything they want: you can assume that fetuses are sentient people, you can assume they have full human rights… and even then, they do not have the right to use another person’s body for nutrition, for shelter, without the pregnant person’s continuous consent. No human has that right – in order for the fetus to be able to be above bodily autonomy, it would have to be superhuman (which goes against the personhood argument that anti choicers love so much).
Bottom line: We cannot have a free society if people do not have control over their bodies.
Now, this post doesn’t cover all the anti choice arguments you’ll hear. But it does cover the main ones, and hopefully gives you the tools to fight back against them. Good luck!
I was terribly abused and grew up in a single parent welfare home. I was born to a child who was given no option but to birth and raise me.
You know what would have helped? If my mom hadn’t been forced into parenthood as a child because of anti choice assholes.
And yet, you are alive today because of it, with the freedom to live your life and make yourself who you want to be. I’m sorry your childhood was hard, but would being dead be better than having that past? Without you, your lovely children wouldn’t exist, to be raised by a strong and caring mother. They are glad you are alive, and I am glad you are alive. As long as there is life, there is a chance to grow and love and find happiness. Although abortion is a legal right (for now), everyone deserves the moral right to life.
I did not deserve to live at the cost of my mother’s childhood. I was not ever entitled to her body. I am not glad my mother was tortured in order for me to exist. And quite frankly, I’m not impressed by your disregard of her and her struggles.
No one’s right to life should extend so far as to allow the use of someone else’s body.
As long as abortion remains legal, reproductive decisions are personal and private. As long as abortion remains legal, people who are pregnant will be able to make their own choices. That’s how it should be. My mother was not in a great situation when she was pregnant with me (or after I was born). Many women in my mother’s situation chose abortion. That’s fine by me, because I understand that such a decision is personal for them and not a commentary on my mother or me. More people need to understand that.
Yes, reproductive decisions are personal and private as long as abortion is legal. None of that makes it morally right to end the human life that was just brought into existance by their previous reproductive decisions, though. Also, you do realize: saying you are fine with abortion being a legal option means you would have supported the abortion of those you love most: sisters, brothers, best friends, romantic partners, no matter what. If their mother had decided she didn’t want to keep them before they were born, and they never existed to brighten your life and everyone’s around them, you would be fine with that? I really doubt you would – I really doubt anyone would. But that’s what abortion is: the legal right to choose whether or not someone else gets to live or die.
If you think abortion is immoral, don’t get one. It’s an option if you need one, but you can choose not to get one. We can each act according to our morals when it comes to personal medical decisions. It’s awesome.
Your second point makes no sense. In some ways, it’s disrespectful. You seem to think that the people who currently exist aren’t good enough for you and any reason a person doesn’t have the relationships they want should be blamed primarily women. It’s not our job to provide you with friends or romantic partners. People have friends and romantic partners if they want them. There are free websites all over the internet of people looking for other people. We bring in the people we want to let in. The fact that my parents didn’t have children after me means nothing. That was 100% up to my mother. Whether she doesn’t have more children because she had an abortion or because she just never got pregnant again is unknown to me and completely none of my business. I have an older brother who I love. Not having other siblings doesn’t diminish my life whatsoever. Suggesting that it should is appalling.
Lastly, abortion being illegal doesn’t mean abortions won’t happen. It means they would be dangerous. Every year, tens of thousands of people around the world lose their spouses, daughters, mothers, aunts, friends, cousins, etc due to illegal abortions. This doesn’t count those who die from pregnancy complications that could have been prevented by access to safe abortion. And I’m talking about real friends and family members, not the imaginary ones you’re talking about. Try to consider them and how their absence might impact a community for once.
Did you know: your job as a person capable of pregnancy means you have to have as many children as humanly possible to brighten other people’s lives. This means not only no abortion but no contraception and no abstaining from penis in vagina sex.
Get breeding, you selfish jerks. No one cares about your excuses.
“The people you love would have never existed”
And we would have never known any different. We all have people we like and love in our lives despite abortions. The people in our lives are not predestined.
Your best friend or lover or sister or brother roommate etc could have been somebody other than who it is now but you’d never ever know that. There are more would-bes in your life than you know yet you have friends and family and such.
So maybe stop torturing women for hypothetical people.
Welcome to Chaos 